tv Robert Egger on Leadership CSPAN September 1, 2014 12:37pm-1:24pm EDT
on with other business. a reminder you can see prime minister cameron's statements anytime time in our library at c-span.org. the prime minister question time resumes live this wednesday on our companion network, c-span2. now i look at what members of congress are tweeting this labor day. says labor day reminds us many of us are looking for jobs. bills for private-sector job growth and strengthening the economy. the new york democrat suites this labor day -- the last one from pennsylvania, the senator says -- this is the final week of congressional recess. both the house and the senate return for business next monday.
networks on the c-span , on c-span, and education departments summit on bullying in schools. at 8:00, bill nye the science guy and ken ham debate evolution. on c-span2's tv, at 7:00 eastern, congressman james inburn talks about his life a leadership position at house of representatives. at 8:30, an author on her book, "price of fame". at 10:00 p.m., michael lewis discussions -- discusses the hidden world. on american history tv, american artifacts looks at declassified 1964ents related to the
incident that led to the escalation of the vietnam war. p.m., president warren harding -- warren harding's will love letters. dylan freeman. find our television schedule at c-span.org and let us know about what you think about the programs you are watching. call us. us.-mail conversation,n like us on facebook, and follow us on twitter. >> now, it is discussion on the use of technology in disaster relief and aid in airliners and people. reported on the disappearance of the asian airline 370.
an official who developed the red cross social media program and a scientist who uses texting and traffic. this is an hour and 10 minutes. >> thank you. welcome. thank you for coming out. about here to talk technology. so much of the time, we turn to technology to solve our problems. we're so good at it, a lot of times, technology solve those problems for we really got a chance to think about whether those problems are entirely problems, or maybe there is something we are losing in the process. maybe the thing we solved is also beneficial in some ways. we will talk about the way technology has made our
lives better and maybe how it is taken something away from our lives. i'm a science journalist and i have been writing a lot about the missing malaysia an airliner. a lot of people are baffled by this case. people say, if i lose my iphone, i can find that. why can't we find a 200 foot long plane with 239 people aboard? how is that possible? that, i was a travel writer, originally. of value in the sensation of being lost. from our panelists, you will see a divide. are we in favor against? let me speak to the panel here with us tonight. to my right, we have windy. i will read this off so i do not
get it wrong. she is the director of information management and for disasterreness services at the american red cross. maybe she can tell us more about herself. it does not stand for anything, i am told. off about it could, i mean. gross, the is matt editor of bon appétit.com. traveler who row for many years at the new york times. he is author of a book -- the church who love apple's. he is an expert of getting lost everywhere. he also had an eight part series specifically about trying to get lost. he is in favor.
so, these people -- i do not want to monopolize the mic. getting lost, people say, get lost, buddy. it is a terrible problem. no one wants to get lost. positive tech not -- positive aspect to it. there is a feeling of, it desirable feeling of getting disconnected and find yourself a part of the world your disconnected and obligated to. and last 10 or 20 years since the turn-of-the-century, we found ourselves in a world in which any adult human being is presumed to be caring a smartphone and has not only instant communication to the know where, but they they are. they have got a gps right there in their pocket.
youauthorities know where are as well. if you dial 911, they know where you are and they can come help you. that is a great thing. and yet, we open it up. is there a problem in that? have we lost something? we no longer venture out into the world. where am i? am i able to get back to where i started from? maybe i can open this up and talk about positive aspects of getting lost. you work for red cross. do you help people who are lost and what is your situation? >> some of the mission of the red cross is to reconnect families after a major disaster , whether that is a were
for the arm of the red cross, or here domestically, we have a whole this -- a whole system where after a disaster, they how many ofmselves you know what google person finder is? that is something google came up with. an entire open system of checking for people. ours is more of a legacy system that has all of these safety measures in at area -- in it. might this affect some iq army? a tsunami hits and we have to find our way back, is that the situation you're talking about? >> yes, less that than being displaced and maybe not having been at work or something and then a disaster happens and you end up at a shelter or another
location, which frequently -- happens. there are definitely families that get separated. >> he this inconvenience? >> it depends on the situation. aboutless life-threatening and more about, when you're feeling lost, you want to reconnect with your family. it is probably more of a demand on the side of people looking for the lost people than it is for the people who are lost. >> i did research for an article about search-and-rescue. 20 years ago, most operations were initiated because someone had not shown up at the point of time and place and their relatives or friends called the
rescue center and said, joe blow was not here and can you go find him? most search-and-rescue operations are initiated by those who are lost. they call up and say, come find me. i cannot figure out where i am. problem is because people have this immense power in their pocket, they will go off into the wilderness without looking at a map. , anderreliance overconfidence. talk something we could about is the difference between information, like knowing your phone is telling you to go north and then left, to actually understanding. where you are. at a map any say, ok, the lake is a rehear and here. i understand the environment. you're not understanding on the phone. being lost takes on a whole new meaning.
map, atre lost on a least you know what the map is. there was a case a few years back, and this kind of thing happens recurrently, where a couple got into the car and wanted to go to vegas. they were in canada. they plug in, decimation vegas. they said shortest route instead of fastest route. the guy wandered off and died. aboutot to ask you more your background. maybe you can talk about what you do. >> shirt. i/o what i do in part to wendy. i have been in a security team for about five years. with doj andf work
state and local governments. shortly after i got there in 2009, 2010, the haiti earthquake. timewas really the first where it entered the popular consciousness about the power of text messaging to aid folks after the disaster. wendy.hen, i read across it was the first time you saw technologists come together and talk about some of the issues. since then, i have really been interested looking at the intersection of that space on a couple of levels. one is in terms of emergency response. charge if we get lost, how are they taking these new technologies? and wemake a phone call are lost.
in disasters, they did some great work on people sending out tweets or facebook posts after a disaster. the first earthquake i experienced was in virginia a couple of years ago. you cannot get any text. i did not know what an earthquake felt like and i checked twitter to see, is this an earthquake? >> yes. there was an earthquake in new york a couple of years ago and i was like, what the heck is that? a friend of mine, 30 seconds ago, had said, earth lake. in haiti, do people have cell phones at the density they have them here and could they use them? not smartphones, so text messaging becomes a very good way for folks to communicate in these
types of natural disasters. a lot of work ahead been doing, trying to understand. they understand movements and how emergency managers can do fine people if they will after a disaster. i started to do some work on this. there has been case studies and for how you can locate people for a disaster. >> we have a real life example. i want to ask the audience how a screechingeard on the phone about 3:00 in the afternoon? [laughter] and a buzzing? this is an example where, this happened to me and i happen to and iotten my cell phone
still have the area code 232 -- 233. clearly, they knew where i was. i do not know how accurately. this is a great benefit your potentially weird and scary. i asked him, if they are expecting some kind of natural disaster cover -- trouble in a certain area, they can find .veryone in that area i do not know all the technical specs for doing it, anyone in the area that cell tower is serving -- >> if there was an occupy wall street kind of cell phones for everybody in the kansai question mark -- campsite?
>> we have been hearing the usefulness of saving lives and things like that. i want to look at the nuances. as i said before, do you have a smartphone in your pocket at all times when you travel? >> who does not have a smart phone in their pocket all the time? there are t does time -- two kinds of travel. there is travel with my family on vacation and going somewhere where i need to know how to get from point a to point b. we are at a pool party in new jersey this weekend and my wife and kids would not have appreciated it if i threw my phone out the window and tried to wing my way out to that town. ridgewood. travel.n there is the
i decided that after years of intensive attention i paid to all of these technologies, phone on the internet, that shane to me in becoming a very astute and capable research and travel, that i am just tired of that stuff. i kept thinking back to the great times earlier in my travel. when i was almost eight years old, i got lost in denmark. >> that was not terrifying? less it was terrifying. terrifying but it is also where you learn what you are
capable of and how you react. and what you do with those moments determine the course of your life and shows you who you are. it teaches you hopefully that you are capable of dealing with these situations. >> quickly, i realized there were different ways of defining lostness. here, i would pick a destination and go there with , nolans, no guidebook looking at my phone and google maps. just be there for a week or so and see what happens. get off the plane. i really have no idea where i will go are what i will do. -- or what i will do.
i have a really good sense of direction. first place i went was in morocco. it was great hearing all of these twisty, tourney alleyways. you theoretically do not know where you're going. walk, i realized, it is on a hill. bill goes down toward the sea. find going downhill, i am going toward the sea. it is hard to turn those things off. i met a young woman interning at
this art exhibit and she wanted untile me to some café audited was just follow her. completely under her care. that was great. was almost capable of not realizing what i -- where i was. >> all i knew about driving downtown was sitting in the passenger seat. i knew actually nothing about how to get from point a to point b. smartphones to something similarly. i want to ask you more but i wendy about,ask have you seen a downside in terms of the disaster preparedness in terms of people onng too dependent situational awareness for your title?
>> yes. as a little bit of background, i started to develop a social media program and had a front row seat to all the technological changes that had gone on since 2006. >> was that my space? >> i did a lot of searching. i used toonal soccer, read 5000 plus conversations about the organization every day. a really good sense of how people feel about it. positively and negatively. in that role, i was all about exploiting every single or to have more resilience and coping mechanisms , we build a whole vision volunteer program where we invite the public to get trained
to provide emotional support and people going through disasters. we try to sit -- try to exploit technology. certainly, there are around being overly reliant upon their smartphones to know things as simple as a telephone number down your street. classic people dropped their cell phone in the water and they are not at home, they do not know how to call their life. -- wife. >> there is a shift away from calling 911, which is what you should do, and there are stories that if you go to an event and , tr a facebook person talk does teenage girls fell into a maybe it wasnd because they did not want their butnts to know or whatever,
they did not call 911 but posted to their friends on facebook to get them. if you have friends, that is great. >> they did not call their friends. posting saying, hey, if anyone sees this, come get me. [laughter] >> they do it as an event? [laughter] >> to your point, you were saying you are trying to get rid of those cubes when you are out, but the technology become so reliant that we don't know how to pull in those cues. -- i would do it myself with my sister in north carolina she punches in the gps sordinates and we become reliant on technology and we immunize ourselves from picking up on that.
i don't know anybody's phone number by heart. you just know to the phone. how that ties back to these emergency situations, you mentioned in theory that we could call 911 from our cell phones and they can locate us. we see upwards of 90% of the calls don't have accurate locations, so you are spending this time on the phone a distressed situation and the operator has not asked you where you are at exactly. >> is it the fault of the system or the phones? >> it is the system. the carriers are supposed to be able to provide this information. >> is it detecting cell phone triangulation or is there a gps chip westmark >> it is a stage to gps information that is scanning more frequently. your phone this post to be
able to have this ape ability. it sounds like -- >> it depends on how you fight and -- how you define it. >> something is going wrong. 911 dispatchers actually having a washington post article having a harder time, having increased instances of it -- the they are emergency vehicle is searching around for it to call 911. it is not as location accurate. x are people not aware of where they are because all they did was take a left at 200 yards? >> there is a language barrier often, if you don't speak
english, you can't explain where you are if you are unable to speak. which i think happens fairly frequently. you are calling from a landline, it is automatically attached to a physical address will stop those are just some of the struggles we are having. we were talking about back to social media a little bit, -- the a new struggle social web is not set up to be location specific. when werawback for us are looking for valuable actionable information. some companies have come up with ways to capture so you can draw andrcle around the area find the actual information of the people effected in that zone. only 3% ofying people have the location turned on.
maybe you could advocate they turn on the location. be not sure i want to responsible for people getting kidnapped or murdered for having that. >> we have this weird way of rival see -- and people seem to ont highly creative stuff facebook and yet when facebook changes the setting so that they are more permissive, people get bent out of shape about it. series atublish the the time, -- ofthere is usually the split people who on the one hand say why would you ever want to get lost? that's terrible. why would i ever want to do
this? then there's the path to discovery and you are putting yourself in a place where you don't know what you are going to do next and that's where it starts in terms of having a ieat experience will stop >> imagine that it's a tiny willinglyf people who put themselves into that uncomfortable place where -- >> it's a minority of one. i never expected anyone to do the kinds of extreme things i was doing, putting it all away. i was doing that to prove a point that you could get rid of everything we developed in the last 20 years and still have a meaningful and enjoyable kind of experience. i can get people to put their phones away for a while and learn to rely on themselves.
i don't have any training in this other than having been around for a while. if i can get people to do that more, i think people will have a better time traveling. i want people to be able to ignore me. i want to put myself out of business as a travel writer. need to read other people to find out where to go and what to do. destroy the industry. >> viva let revolution. luxury of getting lost intentionally while you have this thing in your pocket. you could just make that emergency call. in this day and age, people do ,ll kinds of crazy adventures which is dangerous except for
the fact they've got this emergency satellite transmission. exit.n have an emergency >> iused it once will stop this hugena, which is mega-city. it's about half the size of about 33nd with million or 34 million people. you expanded san francisco, a couple of rivers, tons of tens oftion and millions of chinese migrants, it's complete chaos. i just showed up there. hotel and io find a found the closest place that seemed ok and it turned out to
be miserable. like rich businessmen and their prostitutes playing mah-jongg all might. in the bar section of the city -- they were all loud and expensive, you could not speak to anyone and i was just miserable. pick up ahis bus to suitcase i left at a locker in the airport. i just can't take this anymore. , can connect with anyone here what the hell am i going to do? i made these rules for myself and i could rake the rules. so i went on my phone and i figured if i want to meet people in this city of 34 million people, i should go to a hostile , so i googled the hostile and found one.
l -- this ishe hoste a city where everyone is a they start disassembling buildings as soon as they build them and nobody knows where anything is. it's a totally chaotic place. you feel disappointed or liberated? >> both. i have broken these great rules i set up myself but i also found the process of making friends and i realize there's a point at which these things are useful. google came to my rescue at that point. if it hadn't worked out, i probably would have just booked a flight to hong kong and hung out with people there. but instead i went to this hostel and met a bunch of great people. locals and westerners, it was fantastic. it saved me.
>> there are so much interesting handles on this topic. like you all look intelligent, more intelligent than me. i've been thinking about this a anything? -- is there >> i was thinking we have a conversation about this and when i was invited, i was wondering why i was invited to this. from 2011, it's called the red balloon challenge. they put up 10 red balloons around the country and it was a the000 prize to locate location of these blooms. ity gave a date for it and
was to test and see the ability from crowd sourcing. the scheme they set up was a social incentive scheme. the person who found the balloons got $2000 a person. illusions when drifting across the united states and each one landed in somebody's yard or in the middle of the street will stop each elated would only be seen by one or two or possibly know people. connect 29 random people within a matter of hours? >> vape reposition these loons across the u.s. and there is only a certain number of people that were doing it will stop they set up the scheme, $2000 per person.
>> the financial incentives are causing people to put up postings on their facebook page. if you see a red balloon or know somebody, post this. it's creating these trees of connectivity. >> that worked pretty well. there was some insightful stuff that came from that. there was actually a lot of gain is -- actually a lot of gamesmanship within it. teamswere all of these competing for $40,000. one example might be a terrorist situation where we are trying to locate bombers and locate victims, there was an example in mumbai where disinformation was intentionally being put out. the state department ran a similar campaign called tag. the ideal is to find five individuals, moving targets across the world. and m.i.t. team won again.
m.i.t.n the previous team from uc san diego one. they found three out of five people. >> where is that died out? >> i don't know. -- where is that guy now? >> i don't know. [laughter] that kind of stuff is interesting in terms of collective action. narrow the focus in a really fast way. or the red cross, the golden ticket is resilience. isturns out that being lost a really fine balance between being resilient or not resilient. key things about being able to cope with the unexpected is how connected you are with your community and neighbors. it's not about how much water you have your closet or your
emergency preparedness kit, although it still happens. it is how well-connected are you? canant to do as much as we as an organization to say we are developing these absent encouraging that connection, but you should beide, able to live and be resilient without access to technology if that's the situation you find yourself in. i think it is a fine balance that has all sorts of pros and cons. next is there a negative correlation between people who stockpile stuff in their basement and people connected with their neighbors? struggles one of the we have because it's not an aspirational activity. nobody wants to be the crazy stockpile are. >> it's a reality show. >> i don't want to be that way
either. i enjoy being lost and all that jazz. correlationegative , that's my twoed cents -- be connected when you can be connected and no how to live without being connected if you are not. >> is their advice you guys would offer westmark and use each operate these of advice? -- can you do each offer a piece of advice? what would you have to encourage people? >> one of the easiest things you can do is connect to your local emergency managers and police department, just in case something happens and you have access to those tools than they are at your fingertips. download the red cross cap. .- the red cross app
they are hazard specific. if you are in a tornado and you have lots of tips about what to do in that. having the connected community -- i will give you one quick example. in tornadoes, hundreds of times i have been sitting there while tornado sirens and warnings are going off across the midwest and i will start to see literally thousands of people use the #bathtub because they are all sitting in the bathtub and they feel alone. one of the things we have done it started connecting them to each other to say you're not alone will stop if you do these things and stay there in the bathtub, you are doing the smartest thing you can in that moment. having those kinds of connections in that exact moment when you need them is really important. sometimes the conductivity is not there anymore when the tornado goes through.
it's being able to reach out in that time of need or reach out when the tornado is through. >> i like the idea -- i'm going to go anti-the position you made. i like the idea of getting lost in your own city. don't necessarily hop in your car and plug your phone. when i first went to atlanta, i rumored getting in my car and spending an hour driving around the city, not really having a destination in mind. there's something to be said for emergency preparedness. just knowing the lay of the land.
>> flash flood warning. >> look at that. >> everybody stay put. >> check local media. [laughter] >> i don't know if i'm supposed to be giving advice about getting lost or not getting lost. follow your own curiosity. justhings that i do, driving around randomly and exploring, if i'm curious about what is down that street, i will go down the street. if i want to know who that strange person is in a foreign city, go and ask them. it's sort of getting over yourself, part of the breaking free of their reliance on smart phones and guides and travel writers is a shyness factor of being able to just go and talk and put yourself out there. >> i think social media has enabled a new kind of travel.
and theabout airbnb places where you can find yourself trusting strangers who you may not have had any contact with. because of these forms of media, i agree with matt -- we have similar travel philosophy's and we come into a world that is full of mystery and the sources of mystery our first, the world -- and secondly, we don't know what is in ourselves. it's only when you go out into the world and find yourself dealing with a situation that you've never encountered that you realize that. if we live in a world where everything can be found out beforehand and everything has been planned before hand, you can be very efficient. that, it's a little early.
>> i havemic bearer one question. if you have a situation like sandy, you rely on your cell phone until it dies. just wondering instinctively, i would agree with you and learning how to orient yourself to know how you are to be conscience -- to be conscious of where you are and a connection to your environment is the most important.
i think there is a different generation. andhit the interesting part in disasters now, you go 10 hours and you are all the sudden helpless. you don't know how to do anything anymore. is that a problem? >> we are preparing to see it more frequently. it'se meeting needs side, almost as important as food and water as access to information. sure we to try to make are able to provide real-time to make sure we are getting those infrastructure is about power and activity.
the whole emergency management community, that's one of the shifts the 21st century has wrought, that people need that effort. sure peoplemaking don't have to live without their cell phones. >> it's not as fun. people who don't have who are going to look on the internet anyway, how do you reach out to them? >> the technology stuff is fairly supplemental to the core thing that we do as a response organization. it's the same way it has always been done. -- the woman on the corner who's wheelchair bound,
that is where we will go huddle around to make sure she is ok and she's the most important one because she's the most vulnerable one. it's up to your resilience in that case, it's very much up to your connectedness and your neighbors if you are not technologically proficient. who haveere old people cell phones? >> probably. >> i feel like my parents are e-mail than anybody. >> i have an editor who doesn't have a cell phone at all will stop >> i think it is a dwindling minority. if there issee anyone else out there? >> i'm a journalist and author. the malaysian airliner tragedy struck home for me. in sriin -- i lived lanka for